Paleo Vs. Primal Vs. Atkins

Posted Wed, 09/15/2010 - 16:59 by Melissa

One common question is "What the difference between paleo, primal, and Atkins?" So I made this chart. But in some ways it's very hard because as the science becomes stronger, there has been a strong convergence between the three. For example, many Atkins devotees have realized that they just don't do well on low-carb Frankenfoods. And Cordain has come around with regards to saturated fats.

I put markers on for the most popular "gurus." Kurt Harris at PaNu basically espouses a unprocessed carb-restricted version of paleo which could pass for Atkins. Mark Sisson advocates a fairly laissez-faire approach with the goal basically to avoid the worst foods that aren't on this diagram anywhere. Robb Wolf recommends different things for different goals as I wrote in my review. Loren Cordain is mostly about specific foods and is still down on dairy and nightshades. I guess now that he's writing more and more about how bad those are, they might end up next to dairy in this diagram.

Where am I? I guess the closest to what I do it Sisson + Wolf. I'm moderate carb and do eat some dairy sometimes. Where are you? Quibbles? Questions?

Comments

Thanks, what a great chart!

by PJ (not verified) - 09/26/2010 - 14:53

Thanks, what a great chart! Something like this was really needed.

@ Andrea I know plenty of

by Paul Hawtin (not verified) - 09/20/2010 - 07:59

@ Andrea

I know plenty of Germans on a paleo-like diet.

my favorite sites:

http://www.urgeschmack.de/
http://www.originalhealth.net/
http://www.lchf.de/wissenswertes/steinzeit.php
http://hu-ga.de/

And there are a lot of message boards other than Fighter Fitness, who promote a paleo diet.

Strangely on a german Pick Up Forum there is a lot of discussion about paleo. And that is just one forum I'm aware of!

Even Mellisa was shown on german TV
http://www.prosieben.de/tv/galileo/zusatzinfos/galileo-zusatzinfos-16-ju...

I love this diagram! I would

by Carla (not verified) - 09/19/2010 - 11:44

I love this diagram! I would have to say I am closest to the primal lifestyle. I also eat dairy and dark chocolate. I tried giving it up for a week to see but it didn't feel right. I just try to eat mostly natural foods that make me feel good!

For ease of hunting and

by Joshua (not verified) - 09/18/2010 - 06:53

For ease of hunting and gathering in this modern world, my wife is following a hybrid of all three (Paleo/Primal/PaNu). So far she hasn't broken through the two week "tired" phase.. I keep telling her to "eat more fat" and "get as much sleep as you can during this phase" to speed along the process of convincing her body to burn fats over carbs... but either she is not listening or it's just going quick enough for her.

I've been following the Revised Cordain / Audette Paleo diet (focus on higher fat and reduced fruit intake) for over half a year and had amazing results (55lbs bodyfat gone, increased energy, hormone stabilization, etc).

Venn Diagrams make my inner nerd happy - thanks Melissa!

Thanks for the diagram. Good

by Andrea (not verified) - 09/18/2010 - 04:29

Thanks for the diagram. Good post!
I started with "no grains, no sugar" in November 2008. It was a challenge in the crossfit forum. Then I found Mark Sisson. His book is great for reaching a wide audience, not only fitness & health buffs and geeks. His website has a ton of useful information in easy to digest chunks.

Then I learned about Robb Wolf and his podcasts in a German Mailforum (yes!) called "Fighter Fitness". The only "Paleo community" in Germany until now. Very very small. Europe is years behind.

I listened to all the podcats. No grains, sugar, legumes, dairy is a good way of eating for me. Well, except for some dark chocolate. And I am an espresso addict like Robb Wolf. :-) I eat some yoghurt or cheese occasionally if I can get it from raw milk and organic which is hard to find.

I like his approach: what you eat and how you train depends on your goals and health issues. It's not "one size fits all". It really never is - in shoes as well as in lifestyle. Some folks need more carbs or less, some can tolerate dairy, some not, fasting can be good but is bad if you are in burn out and so on. I like that. It is not a religion or the ten commandments like the Ornish Diet.
I read Panu and Gedgaudas and all the other blogs but Wolf is what resonates with me best.

 

That's an awesome chart!

by Brandon (not verified) - 09/17/2010 - 23:50

That's an awesome chart! Definitely very helpful in understanding the differences between the different "approaches" to paleo - especially for a relative newbie like myself. I'm mostly following the Sisson approach, with the vast majority of my carbs coming from fruits and veggies.

Thanks for the diagram. Good

by Andrea (not verified) - 09/17/2010 - 18:10

Thanks for the diagram. Good post!
I started with "no grains, no sugar". It was a challenge in the crossfit forum. Then I found Mark Sisson. His book is great for reaching a wide audience, not only fitness & health buffs and geeks. His website has a ton of useful information in easy to digest chunks.

Then I learned about Robb Wolf and his podcasts in a German Mailforum (yes!) called "Fighter Fitness". The only "Paleo community" in Germany until now. Very very small. Europe is years behind.

I listened to all the podcats. No grains, sugar, legumes, dairy is a good way of eating for me. Well, except for some dark chocolate. And I am an espresso addict like Robb Wolf. :-) I eat some yoghurt or cheese occasionally if I can get it from raw milk and organic which is hard to find.

I like his approach: what you eat and how you train depends on your goals and health issues. It's not "one size fits all". It really never does - in shoes as well as in lifestyle. Some folks need more carbs or less, some can tolerate dairy, some not, fasting can be good but is bad if you are in burn out and so on. I like that. It is not a religion or the ten commandments like the Ornish Diet.
I read Panu and Gedgaudas and all the other blogs but Wolf is what resonates with me best.

Awesome chart! I think about

by Primal Toad (not verified) - 09/17/2010 - 16:38

Awesome chart! I think about this a lot... primal vs paleo. I have been following the laws from the primal blueprint so i guess this is where I land. But I think everyone follows a general primal/paleo lifestyle and then does what they want. No one is perfect.

If one wants to eat dairy then fine. If one is 100% certain they can handle it then its no big deal - even beneficial But if you are primal or paleo then you are going to be skipping grains and legumes!

I eat very small amount of dairy. I have been cooking with butter recently and seem to be doing fine. But, I do prefer coconut oil.

I can't wait to get Robb Wolfs book - its suppose to arrive in the mail next week!

Did Atkins allow vegetable

by Somesortofname (not verified) - 09/17/2010 - 12:30

Did Atkins allow vegetable oils, too, just for the sake of them being a fat? You can be high-fat on corn oil, but I know PaNu and Sisson would be very much opposed to that idea (way too much o-6).

This is genius. I've been

by Paul (not verified) - 09/17/2010 - 05:20

This is genius. I've been waiting for someone smarter than I to sum it all up. This makes my diet easier to explain to friends and family.

I follow Neanderthin, and

by Don Wiss (not verified) - 09/17/2010 - 05:01

I follow Neanderthin, and that is not on the chart. Ray's rules are basically only eat the food if it is edible raw and you can kill it with a stick. Plus no Neolithic foods, so no dairy. Potatoes are out, but other nightshades are allowed. No limits on saturated fat.

People keep saying PaNu is

by spencer (not verified) - 09/16/2010 - 17:51

People keep saying PaNu is low carb, but this is not the case at all. Read on after the 12 steps:
http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/

No macro ratios. Eat potatoes if you wanna.

I am Wolf/Primal. I gave up

by terenced (not verified) - 09/16/2010 - 13:18

I am Wolf/Primal. I gave up on dairy because it doesn't sit well with me. I only have butter (which I love) and cheddar cheese every once in a while because that is all I can tolerate.

Quibble. Isn't Primal just

by Alex (not verified) - 09/16/2010 - 11:47

Quibble. Isn't Primal just Mark Sisson's brand? This diagram isn't doing much for me.

$i$$on LOL.

by rsg (not verified) - 09/17/2010 - 12:01

$i$$on LOL.

Have you read the other

by Melissa - 09/16/2010 - 14:14

Have you read the other comments? Or the #primal hashtag on Twitter?

Yes, no. I probably tend to

by Alex (not verified) - 09/17/2010 - 09:14

Yes, no. I probably tend to over-emphasize the similarities between the various paleo / primal authors (and I do think a real consensus is emerging, see e.g. Loren is now OK with lots of fat), although I suppose Mark's approach to exercise is distinctive enough that it merits its own name.

Incidentally, while picking up my signed copy of Robb's book last night, I asked him for the 60-second case against dairy. His answer was really interesting. He advocates a cost-benefit analysis for any food - dairy happens to be nutritionally dense and to contain the right kinds of fat etc., but it is an inflammatory agent so if you're facing some kind of inflammation (GI stuff, a cold, allergies) it might make sense to cut it out for 30 days and see what changes. I'm planning to give that a shot when my annual fall / winter cold shows up.

Since I'm eating

by garymar (not verified) - 09/15/2010 - 20:06

Since I'm eating "paleo-dairy" I guess that puts me near PaNu. The PaNu location seems a bit too far away from the "tuber-fruits-roots" area -- or at least "tuber-roots".

Difficult to diagram, isn't it? Maybe "supplementation" should be on their somewhere too.

I used to be all of them. I

by Dan (not verified) - 09/15/2010 - 17:35

I used to be all of them. I guess I sit somewhere between Paleo and Primal now. But I also have diary when I want which isn't often. Can we make a fourth category called evolutionary foods. Ill just put I want in there:)

Yeah, like Dan, I am

by JP (not verified) - 09/15/2010 - 18:09

Yeah, like Dan, I am definitely in the evolutionary category!

I'm more paleo than I am primal. I'm a paleo + sometimes dairy.

Yet to read Robb Wolf's book

by bryan (not verified) - 09/15/2010 - 17:30

Yet to read Robb Wolf's book (it's on order), and I'm fairly in the Sisson area——yet I also incorporate many Body Ecology Diet principles into my food choices, including food combining, eating mainly (80 percent) non-starchy veggies, and ingesting lots of probiotic/fermented drinks and lacto-fermented veggies. I'm all primal-ecology.

Wait, how bad are

by Levi (not verified) - 09/15/2010 - 17:12

Wait, how bad are nightshades? I still like to munch on an heirloom tomato every once in a while.

Cordain posted a paper in his

by Melissa - 09/15/2010 - 17:13

Cordain posted a paper in his Newsletter. I can send it to you because now it's behind a paywall. But personally if I'm not having problems with them I'm not giving them up.

That's a really useful Venn

by Juan (not verified) - 09/15/2010 - 17:11

That's a really useful Venn diagram! I will definitely use it when recommending and discussing this subject to others. I'm Pretty much PaNu with very low carb and some dairy.

Just got Robb Wolf's book today. Looks awesome, as I know it will be.

Keep up the great Tweets/Blog.

Juan