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Melissa McEwen
This blog is about the intersection between evolutionary biology and food. But also about practical applications, sustainable agriculture, and general tasty things. I originally started eating this way to heal from chronic health problems and...it worked!
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Wise Traditions Recap
I spent this weekend in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania at the Weston A. Price Foundation's Wise Traditions conference with John Durant and Allison Bojarski. I live-Tweeted it, but here is also a list of things I learned:
1. Dr. Stephan Guyenet and Chris Masterjohn are as cool, smart, and genuine in person as they are on the internet. These two scientists are doing great work and someday I hope to see books from both of them. I think it's hilarious that Colin Campbell criticized Chris for not being a real scientist when he wrote his critique of The China Study...so he became one! Well, that's not the only reason, but it's quite amusing.
2. Question your ideas. Did you know that your arteries are not like pipes? Masterjohn's presentation completely blew my understanding of heart disease away and we hope to host him for that same talk in NYC some time. Masterjohn says that heart disease isn't about too much fat, but about impairment of the LDL receptor, eventually leading to rupturing of the fibrous cap on the artery lining when collagen breakdown exceeds synthesis. Because the receptor is messed up, LDL sits around and oxidizes, damaging the endothelial wall. What can prevent this? Optimizing thyroid status, supporting antioxidant defense systems, and cooling inflammation. It's interesting that Chris does not think antioxidants are useless, but believes you can't study them in isolation because they act in concert. Stephan and I also talked a bit about how he believes fiber really is important. I hope he'll post more about this in the future :) but it's about short chain fatty acids. You can get some from animal products, but the absorb differently than those made from fiber fermentation. I'm also hoping to see something from Chris about how to optimize thyroid status, but he gave some clues in his presentation: protein, iodine, selenium, and good gut flora. He also noted that the master of thyroid function is leptin, which makes sense given that many CHD sufferers also have other markers of leptin dysfunction.
3. I'm 200% more committed to knowing where my meat comes from. On Saturday I attended the livestock nutrition track, where we learn how pasturing isn't the end of the story. Good pastures and significantly different from bad pastures and the meat from the animals grazing on good pastures really is more nutritious. There needs to be more study on this matter because there is a lot of sub-standard beef out there and consumers don't know enough to care about it. If you are interested in this subject Jerry Brunetti and Dr. Will Winter are doing some amazing work.
4. Yes, the Inuit do eat plants and lots of them. I already knew this, but at least ONCE A MONTH I get a comment, email, or tweet from a low carber insisting they ate only meat and fish. This is stupid and Anore Jones, who actually lived with a tribe, documented hundreds of plant foods that grew in large quantities. I have ordered her book and plan to post more about this in the future.
5. Gentle cooking methods and unprocessed proteins are the way to go. Interestingly, none of Price's "healthy cultures" fried their foods. I think Masterjohn will be exploring the science behind this in the future, but a lot of healthy cultures used steaming and boiling.
6. Starches are interesting. In Stephan's talk about Pacific diets he mentioned taro, cassava, and other starchy vegetables. Given how easy these are to find in NYC, I'm curious about experimenting with them in my diet.
7. Stop blaming the macronutrients! Anore Jones presented on the healthy, but fairly low-carb Inupiat and Stephan Guyenet presented on the healthy, but very high-carb Pacific people. During his presentation, Stephan put it this way "The idea that high intake of carbs or fat causes diseases of civilization is completely inconsistent with the data."
8. Added sugar(even natural sugar) and gluten (even fermented) are still bad and there is no reason to ever eat them. Unfortunately they were present in great amounts, despite numerous sessions I attended blasting them. It's interesting because high-carb Kitavans lose weight with age, but the opposite effect was quite evident at Wise Traditions.
9. Sometimes I get sick on paleo's overemphasis on macronutrients and disconnection from traditions. There is something much more enduring and exiquisite about some of the food traditions displayed here, that goes beyond some of the just-so stories and banal health products associated with paleo. That said, paleo is generally more scientific and there were things at Wise Traditions that would probably fall under the umbrella of woo.
10. I was really proud to see paleo/Crossfit representing good physical health. I think we gained a bunch of fans, including a farmer who provides meat to a Crossfit affiliate. In one session she was like "So this presentation lists a lot of problems with grains. Why even bother?" The only reason to bother is when they taste good IMHO. But ultimately I am a busy person and I'm not going to make blini or dosa very often. Paleo is so much easier. It was telling that one of the most popular sessions was Nora Gedgauda's one on curbing the carb cravings...
And a bonus:
11. The government isn't going to fix the food system and in its blundering will destroy many small farmers and food businesses. Wow, it was scary seeing a doc called Farmageddon, which was accounts of military-style raids on FARMS. It was weird being in the same room as many of the people I did my senior food law thesis on like Linda Faillace and Mark McAfee. I was very glad to pay $4 at breakfast for bone broth because it supported the Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund. But I still don't feel sad about not going to law school because the whole thing is just too depressing for me.
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Thanks so much Melissa for
Thanks so much Melissa for blogging on this event. Your recap was interesting and insightful. I think it's great that you had the opportunity to attend the WAPF conference, and I appreciate your perspective very much.
I have been eating a mostly traditional diet for the past 7 years. I was not able to attend this past conference, unfortunately. Sorry I missed it. However, mostly likely, I would have been one of the overweight individuals that you noticed at the conference. But here is something to think about perhaps...
I have struggled with my weight and health for many years. Over the past 10 years, I have become convinced that I would be healthier (and skinnier) if I could give up most starches, grains and sugars. I have managed to exclude these types of foods over a dozen times in the last few years, sometimes as long as six months at a time. Each time, I do lose some weight, and feel a wee bit better.
However, each time ends with giving in, and eventually adding grains and sugars back into my diet. And then I gain back the weight. OH well. Here's the kicker....for me, I've decided that I just cannot stick to a paleo type of diet, no matter how much I'm convinced it would be healthier for me. So, if I am the kind of person who chooses to eat grains and sugars, then I believe that it's a much healthier decision to eat sprouted and sour-leavened grains and only natural sugars like raw honey and maple syrup, as presented in Nourishing Traditions. I am a very happy person eating this way, and so is my family. No one complains or feels deprived, and we're all well nourished, although a bit round.
It's possible that I will live a shorter life because of this decision to continue to consume fermented grains and natural sugars. And it's possible that I will be overweight my entire life, which is unfortunate since I'm kinda vain that way. But you wouldn't believe how much happier I am now at age 41 than I was at age 31. I am heavier, but I believe I am actually healthier. So I guess I'm making progress, and maybe sometime I'll have the ability to give up grains and sugars forever. I certainly don't believe that I have to eat them to be healthy. But it brings enough joy to my life that I'm willing to take that risk, even though there's a good chance it might have a detrimental effect on my health, long term.
I am grateful for WAPF for showing me a way to consume these foods in a more traditional way, that is more digestible and healthy.
And let me state once again that I am grateful for bloggers like you who are willing to learn all the time, and then share that with readers like us. You are a blessing to all of us.
I was at the conference, and
I was at the conference, and I appreciated this conversation I heard by the hotel staff, " Oh these are the people who love BUTTER?! But wait...none of them are Fat!"
My thoughts exactly.
Sure, many of the people were not cross-fit enthusiasts like yourself, but overall, I felt the majority of people looked well maintained and healthy. Of course, health is relative, and it's important to remember that the focus of the WAPF is to return to nutrient dense foods, (which were found in wide varieties among Many different traditional groups all over the world) Not necessarily to eat like cavemen.
The focus of the conference is to bring back nourishment to a society and group of people who've probably been damaged by an over processed and malnourished diet.
The WAPF principles are to pass on the bricks and mortar to the next generation- round faces and wide dental arches- signs of superior nourishment. Some people, based on their genetic and current health status (healed guts and no tooth decay) may very well do this with grains as a component of their diet.
I think we can all work together to bring awareness to properly raised animal foods and to improve our food supply for everyone- like you said- sourcing of meats is SO important! We need to shout it from the blogs everywhere that nourishment comes back down to the soil and the animals and the flow of nature.
LOL, I definitely don't do
LOL, I definitely don't do Crossfit, at least not now. I hope to join soon though.
I don't mind the grains myself, as I am an occasional consumer of them. I totally agree on the meat sourcing and good nutrient-rich traditional foods. I do think the evidence is strong for not eating modern wheat or sweetened things though.
Wonderful recap, thanks! I
Wonderful recap, thanks! I look forward to hearing more :) I've really been enjoying your blog since I've started following it recently.
8. Added sugar (even natural
8. Added sugar (even natural sugar) and gluten (even fermented) are still bad and there is no reason to ever eat them. Unfortunately they were present in great amounts, despite numerous sessions I attended blasting them. It's interesting because high-carb Kitavans lose weight with age, but the opposite effect was quite evident at Wise Traditions.
Illogical and unfair.
You are implying here that Wise Traditions attendees are fat (that is questionable to begin with - I can expound later) because they eat lots of bread and sugar.
Many of us are still recovering from the industrial food system. I don't think it's fair to look at overweight attendees and blame the sprouted grains or unrefined sweeteners.
If you look at the general U.S. population (not just WAPF members), obesity did not explode until the last 50 years, and yet Americans have been eating large quantities of wheat and sugar for centuries. So maybe we should look instead to all the fake foods like high fructose corn syrup, soy, and margarine, as well as nutrient-depleted foods like pasteurized skim milk and refined grains.
Jenny from Nourished Kitchen told me that she had a reader come up to her and thank her for her blog. The reader (I think she was overweight) said (paraphrasing), "I was put on Slim Fast at age 7 and my hormones are completely ruined."
Allison asked at the social media panel how WAPF bloggers can more effectively work with paleo bloggers. I really want to see this happen because I know that if we all join forces, we can effect the health of millions of people -- and take down the industrial food system.
Perhaps we can agree to disagree on the things we don't agree on -- and focus on SUPPORTING each other.
Speaking of which, can you help us promote our Farm Raid Fund Blitz tomorrow????
http://www.cheeseslave.com/2010/11/18/save-these-family-farms-act-now/
Please post/tweet/Facebook/etc.
Thank you!
:-)
I think you missed my point a
I think you missed my point a bit. It was a little jarring to see things like apple jam and sweets, which WAP himself wrote were devastating. At some point we should take a stand and say no to dessert.
And yes, you can gain bad fat on these things. Last year I ate a lot of these sort of whole food desserts and accumulated a fair amount of visceral fat, which is the bad fat. I'm all for being less judgmental about weight, but I would like to see health conferences refuse to serve any sugar besides fruit.
I wasn't the only person who thought these things either. I'm just the only one who already has a bad reputation that I don't have to worry about ruining.
I'll definitely RT and save the farms thing!
I source all the food for the
I source all the food for the WAPF conference.
All the main meal items were sans sweetener and of the desserts (2 were fruit - and 3 used whole unrefined sweeteners)
There were no apple jams, but apricot and peach low sugar, small batch. Again, they were a topping, and no one obligated to use them. A donor gift.
The yogurt at the breakfast (separate from the conference meals) was sweetened with maple syrup, and unfortunately was low fat...a mix up on the donor's part.
Tea sweetened with stevia.
Friday Lunch - Citrus Salad (no sugar including coconut chips) http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/organic_dried_coconut.htm)
Friday Dinner - Amish Custom Made Apple Goodie - Rapadura Sweetened.
Whipped Cream - Raw Honey
Saturday Lunch - Raw Milk Cheesecake - Raw Honey
Saturday Banuet - Raw Milk Ice Cream - Maple Syrup and Almond Topping - Maple Syrup
Sunday - Melon
Sunday Optional Toppings for French Toast -
Jam (low sugar) Whipped Cream (raw honey)
Gosh, I'd love for someone to find something good to say about all the hard work that went into finding and cooking these excellent foods to feed 1,200 people.
This belly aching gave me a sour stomach. I don't sense any feelings of gratitude.
Geez, sour grapes much? The
Geez, sour grapes much? The rest of the food was excellent. Why not just double the serving of meat (the tataki was amazing) for dinners and omit dessert and out of season fruit entirely!
The people Dr. Price studied
The people Dr. Price studied DID eat sweets. Not frequently, but they did eat them. And of course they ate unrefined sweeteners, not refined sugar.
Acc to the Price Pottenger Foundation:
"Sweets (even good, natural sweets) were used rarely or sparingly, only for occasions of ritual, celebration or special feasting."
http://www.ppnf.org/catalog/ppnf/TraditionalDietsSimilarities.htm
I would say that the annual WAPF conference IS an occasion of ritual, celebration or special feasting!
If you don't eat sugar or grains, I don't think they were hard to avoid. I have gone to the WAPF conference before when I was on GAPS and had no trouble at all finding PLENTY to eat.
I agree there were too many
I agree there were too many sweets. In fact most of the people who are fine with eating grains still noted that the food tasted too sweet overall. Pretty unnecessary to have sweetened yogurt if you ask me.
But, it is pretty amazing how many people they managed to feed decent whole nourishing foods. I think they would also be open to suggestions for future years.
Speaking of missing organs... personally I'd like to see more organ meats served. Liver pate at every meal!
I think you make a good and
I think you make a good and legitimate point. Many of the people I know who've eaten WAP for a long time started with completely ruined thyroids or adrenals from the SAD. They feel a lot better now that they're eating better, but their teeth, hormones, and hence weight are still quite screwed up because they're missing vital organs (like thyroids, gall bladders, etc.).
I tend to look at THEIR KIDS. Kids who were raised 100% on WAP have beautiful round faces, wide dental arches, and are so lean and energetic!
On the other hand, I do think it's not *normal* to gain so much weight as you age. I'll not name names, but there are *some* long-term WAP dieters out there who were fit 10 years ago and have packed on a LOT of weight. I can only think it's because their metabolism is slowing as they age, yet they're still eating 4000+ calories/day. I know it's not as simple as Calories In/Calories Out, but there really is such a thing as eating too much or eating the wrong balance of calories to keep your hormones and metabolism in good order.
Good point about the missing
Good point about the missing organs! I met a woman at Wise Traditions who had only found out about the conference (and the organization) 2 weeks prior to going. She told me that she had just had her thyroid removed. She also had a double mastectomy and a complete hysterectomy. Can you say IODINE DEFICIENCY?
Of course, people in the Western medical world never talk about nutritional deficiency being a cause of physical degeneration and disease. They just want to cut it out. Absolutely barbaric.
I think many of us have an unhealthy obsession with being skinny -- perhaps too skinny.
I think this focus on being "lean" is perhaps rooted in an aesthetic ideal that is not realistic and is actually very modern. Being lean has only been in vogue for the past 50 years or so -- people wanted to look well-rounded, fleshy and well-fed.
“Keep in mind that television, magazines, movies, and even newspapers rarely show images of average-shaped bodies.” ~Julia Ross, author of The Diet Cure
There is a difference between
There is a difference between lean curvy and being fat, which is dependent on the visceral fat. The problems with accumulated visceral fat are well documented. I posted on this some time ago
http://huntgatherlove.com/content/healthy-any-size
Wonderful post. I agree with
Wonderful post. I agree with you on pretty much every point (except gluten being bad for everybody).
Please see your Facebook fan page. I tried to write a longer comment above but your spam filter wouldn't let me do it!
In Stephan's talk about
In Stephan's talk about Pacific diets he mentioned taro, cassava, and other starchy vegetables.
Back when I believed that a vegetarian diet was the key to good health, I used to eat poi (fermented taro paste) every single day. It's considered the staple food for us Hawaiians.
I was puzzled that I continued to put on weight at a steady rate, even though I was basically a 90% vegetarian (could never cut out meat completely).
Than I discovered low-carb diet theory on the interwebs and cut out the carbs and began eating animal protein with gusto while controlling the carbs...and lost 35 lbs. in 4 months.
As much as I love poi, I only eat it on occasion, and not too much of it.
Several years after having changed my dietary lifestyle, I was reading a book about Ancient Hawaiians and I came across a passage that made me literally laugh out loud.
The warriors of old had certain konohiki -- stewards -- appointed to watch the warriors lifestyles and keep them from doing things that would inhibit their warrior skills and capabilities.
One was to carefully watch the warriors while they were eating..and if a warrior were observed eating too much poi, the konohiki would tell them to stop, because they would get too fat and unable to run away from the enemy should they find themselves commanded to retreat.
In short...while taro and poi definitely have nutritious value, it's still a high-carb food that will make you fat if you eat it in significant quantities.
Hey Melissa, Nice to meet you
Hey Melissa,
Nice to meet you this weekend, and thanks for the re-cap about the conference.
The starch issue is interesting to me as well- I know I didn't have a great low carb experience, and wonder whether I would have done better to just eliminate grains. Gluten's tricky too- I think there's obvious legitimacy to the disturbance that gluten can instigate for people, but I also don't know that I want to be hyper vigilant about avoiding it. I see the consequences of agriculture as a student of anthropology, and at the same time, I love bread and my local grass farmers also raise a bit of grain and I like eating it from them. Plus the corn on the cob that we grow in our garden is technically a grain, and I just felt so torn up when I was low carb thinking about the foods I 'shouldn't' eat, including the homegrown stuff. So I've let that aside, but I wonder whether there's some optimized middle ground I can inhabit.
Anyway, glad to meet you and John and Stephen and Chris and Kat this past week. Best regards,
Rob
I would recommend not eating
I would recommend not eating grains. There are so many starchy root vegetables out there. Today's post on MDA has some great yam options.
You could also experiment with chestnuts, but I found them less agreeable because of their phytic acid content.
Some exceptions I enjoy (and apparently Stephan likes as well), are homemade blini and idlis.
What's MDA?
What's MDA?
Mark's daily apple, a
Mark's daily apple, a website.
I wish I could have been
I wish I could have been there, but I had to cancel. Boo hoo! I'm saving my pennies for Dallas, though!
Question: you said, "Stephan and I also talked a bit about how he believes fiber really is important." I love his blog.
Fiber in what form?
Thanks for your post!,
Jen
Here is Stephan's most
Here is Stephan's most interesting post on fiber:
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/12/butyric-acid-ancient-contr...
Thanks for giving updates on
Thanks for giving updates on this conference via Twitter, made for v. interesting reading. Also your recap is very interesting, especially regarding Points 8 and 10. Perhaps a bit naive on my part but am surprised to read about the shape that some of the Wise Traditions followers are in...
It's interesting about the
It's interesting about the carbs. I think a lot depends on your ancestors as far as how many carbs you can consume without gaining. Movement matters too. I am far less active than my grandmothers were.
The farmers that supply my meat have been talking about what they are doing to improve the pasture. They practice biodynamic farming. They have trucked in many tons of crushed rock to remineralize the soil. I'm in Illinois, which the farmers call the goiter belt. They feed kelp to the cattle in case they are low on iodine.
Hi Melissa, Wish I knew of
Hi Melissa,
Wish I knew of the conference! Thats close to where I live.
cool to read your view on
cool to read your view on this event. on a sort of related note, have you seen the documentary film Babies? they film one baby and his family in Namibia, and it appears they are more gatherers then farmers (though i could be wrong), anyhow, the older women look healthy but not thin per sey, more round in the tummy/breast/butt areas. of course the movie isnt focused on diet so i dont know if after the camera leaves they eat white bread and sip soda...
Pre-invitation invitation?
Pre-invitation invitation? NYC -- I'm there!
Utility, the particular point about SCFAs was from Stephan, but I give it the thumbs up.
Chris
Wow, great recap. This makes
Wow, great recap. This makes me all the more intent on attending the next one since I missed this years.
BTW, we have a grass-fed farmer from IL who comes out to our Crossfit box every couple of months - says we always clean out his truck!! I mean, if I'm going to work THAT hard on my body, you better believe I'm refueling it the best I can!
Thanks for this Melissa!
Thanks for this Melissa! Comment #8 is so telling. ;)
Nice recap, especially #7 and
Nice recap, especially #7 and #8.
and disconnection from
and disconnection from traditions.
As a Cynic and an anarcho-primitivist, I see the disconnection from our Natures to be the single cause of the __Fill_in_the_blank___ problem.
I have linked to your site once before because I like the emphasis you place on evolutionary-appropriate foods for the person -- not some one-size-fits-all paleo diet.
Thanks, I have some posts
Thanks, I have some posts coming up you might like :) One of the 10,000 year explosion and one on the anarchist history of Southeast Asia.
You have my attention. I
You have my attention. I will be looking for them.
I am curious what you mean by
I am curious what you mean by this quotes:
"It's interesting because high-carb Kitavans lose weight with age, but the opposite effect was quite evident at Wise Traditions."
Would you mind expanding?
It's my own opinion that
It's my own opinion that long-term practitioners of healthy diets should be fairly lean, even as they age.
Unfortunately it seemed many people at Wise Traditions might need to read this book, if you catch my drift.
It was telling that the standing-room only sessions were Nora's on curbing carb cravings and Kevin Brown's on losing weight. Of course some of these people were new to the real food movement and need to heal, but it's the long-term practitioners that worry me.
Thank you for the honest
Thank you for the honest reply. I follow a lot of WAP type blogs and I concur. Not many of those bloggers are lean. I do not think obesity is a natural course of aging. unfortunately many accept this as an inevitable fate. the traditional foodies still tend to eat way to many grains and thus suffer those consequences over time.
Women's bodies in particular
Women's bodies in particular do change with age, but most foragers remain fairly lean.
I think these older forager/horticulturalist women are good examples. They aren't supermodels and you can tell they've birthed and fed children, but they still look pretty lean.
Troibriand (near Kitava) woman
Papua New Guinea woman.
Efe woman
San woman
Of course the men look even more physically impressive, though there is some muscle loss with age. Sadly many of the men at Wise Traditions had quite a paunch.
An interesting thing to think about is the distinction between horticulturalists and agriculturalists. They are very different culturally and in terms of foods, though both usually are high-carb. The healthy cultures Stephan talked about were horticulturalists. The difference in foods is % reliance on grains, which is low or absent from horticulturalists.
Hmm. I don't know. Their tits
Hmm. I don't know. Their tits still hang down to their knees. Is it worth efforting over trying to be lean?
Let's face it: aging happens.
Do you think Julia Child was fat? I thought she looked good and she lived to be 91.
I say eat the butter and enjoy it!
Oh and by the way here is a picture of a Maori mom and dad from Dr. Price's book:
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/Fig.74.jpg
Not exactly lean.
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/price12.html
The Maori woman looks a lot
The Maori woman looks a lot like my own grandmother, who is 93
http://huntgatherlove.com/content/traditional-american-diets-interview-m...
Not lean, not fat, just in the middle. There is some evidence that the type of fat that my grandmother has, primarily on the hips and thighs, is protective as we age.
Her body shape looks a lot
Her body shape looks a lot like Sally Fallon Morell's.
And the dad has that paunch you criticized on the men at the conference.
And yet they weren't eating sugar or grains.
We honestly don't know how
We honestly don't know how acculturated those people's diets were at that point.
i've been a fan of sally
i've been a fan of sally fallon's for over 10 years now and was shocked to see how she's aged in a live seminar she was giving on the internet a few months back. it bothered me a lot (because my mom and grandma who follow a way less "traditional" diet have aged far better), but it's a tough thing to comment on. you don't want to be *rude*, but honestly she's no longer the poster girl for 'eat fat to lose fat'. i think it's the grains mixed with all the butter. i hope this doesn't come off as mean-spirited, but i think there's a lesson to be learned here.
Sally looks great. You might
Sally looks great. You might have seen her when she was having some issues. But as of today- she looks great- esp for her age. Her skin is flawless and her teeth are strong and white. Sure she's probably not out cross-fitting and foraging it with ya, but hey, she's a well defined and beautiful lady!
Truly nourished and not starving either!
Wow, those pics got me all
Wow, those pics got me all hot and bothered. can you explain what you mean by horticultarlist.
Interesting recap. Btw, I
Interesting recap.
Btw, I have read about some of the same points as in the mentioned talk by Chris Masterjohn like
the fiber-> short chain fatty acids connection, management of thyroid status and healthy gut etc. in the "Perfect Health Diet" book/blog by Paul Jaminet and Sou-Ching Shih.
You might want to check them out if you don't know them already.
br
interesting post...i'd be
interesting post...i'd be curious to learn more about what constitutes "good pastures"
Me too! Can you expand on
Me too! Can you expand on this, Melissa?
Melissa, thanks for the heads
Melissa, thanks for the heads up on that documentary and for enlightening me to the merits of sustainable farming in general. Good stuff
Really interesting. Thanks
Really interesting. Thanks for sharing!
And maybe if you end up hosting that Masterjohn talk in NYC you could do it on a weekend so that those of us in NJ could make the trip? =D